Permanente IFR Prozeduren Samedan LSZS

[Michael Kühne]

For those who do not follow the development of procedures at LSZS closely: The IFR procedures are permanent since a few month, meaning that a pilot can fly IFR to/from LSZS. ATC is only provided for the part of the flight with Swiss Radar, FL160+. Below only FIS is offered, with Swiss Radar or Samedan Info.
There is an approach to both runways (03: VISUAL APCH WITH RNP GUIDANCE, 21: RNP), the minimas are therefore quite different. The departures from both runways are similar, be aware of the equipment requirement for the different types.

What does this mean? A pilot performing an IFR departure will receive a departure clearance on the ground (SID, squawk, etc.) and is then allowed to enter controlled airspace according to the SID. There is still no take off clearance given, what can be used is a time limit for departure due to arrivals (as you probably know from the US). Or a pilot departs VFR and will need an IFR clearance (joining) once airborne.
Arrivals either cancel IFR or fly the procedure (similar to LSGS), without landing clearance.

Good practice is therefore to request the intentions of a arrival (if nothing is filed in the flight plan) or inform those on ground about the possibilities, as from experience not all pilots will contact Swiss Radar for an IFR departure. But as everybody is reading this post...

[Chiara Paganini]

Who gives the IFR clearance in that case? Is it Samaden Info with the entire "Swiss Radar clears you to ..." thingy, just a regular clearance from Samaden Info or do you call Swiss Radar for the clearance directly?

[Michael Kühne]

Who gives the IFR clearance in that case?

I would guess Samedan Info on behalf of Swiss Radar. Just as Samedan Info only provides FIS and not ATC.
But maybe somebody did listen to such a clearance once or knows more. On VATSIM this is not that relevant, as Samedan Info is almost never online.

[Florian Hofer]

I would guess Samedan Info on behalf of Swiss Radar. Just as Samedan Info only provides FIS and not ATC.
But maybe somebody did listen to such a clearance once or knows more. On VATSIM this is not that relevant, as Samedan Info is almost never online.

I can ask someone who is, or was working up there. I have to check that first.

[Florian Hofer]

I got a reply.

It is pretty much like Michael said.

Clearances are given by Zurich Delta (I think in our case that is LSAS_CTR). In cases of departures LSZS_I_TWR is allowed to forward the clearance given by Zurich Delta to the aircraft.

As far as I understand this, it means Zurich Delta is master, assigns departure, Squawk etc and LSZS_I_TWR gives it to the aircraft.

[Chiara Paganini]

Makes sense, so probably LSZS Info says something like "HBPAB, Runway 21, Zürich Delta clears you to Grenchen via the PELAD 1V departure, initial climb 16000ft, squawk 6750". Did I miss something? (Pretty sure clearance to enter airspace C is implied in the clearance). Would LSZS Info have to get a departure release from Delta like Grenchen does from Bern or is the release window given with the clearance?

[Michael Kühne]

clearance to enter airspace C is implied in the clearance

Correct, is also stated on the charts that way (controlled airspace or a similar wording).
A departue release or window can be given if required, but the traffic management should not mandate that, opposed to LSZG/LSZB, where the route conflict each other.