View Full Version : ES Holdings during simulator training session (without mentor)

Florian Hofer (1300921)
15.06.2017, 16:20
Hello everyone

As I am currently training a little bit for LSGG_APP I received a few files to train it by my own.

With increasing traffic amount, holdings might be needed for short time.

When I tried to assigns holding via tag, the holding was correctly entered to the list, but the aircraft continued straight on their route without any holding. (see picture below)


I continued trying if I can assign other holdings this way, but it did not work.

Then I found, after searching for a while, this symbol in the simulator bar (the holding pattern symbol).


When pressing this symbol the selected aircraft started holding over the next waypoint as published (like stated in the mouse-over). But this makes it a little difficult for a trainee, as holdings are right then needed, when you are really short on time. And always going extra to this bar is disturbing and focus on the screen is lost, especially because you need to remember to press it at the right time. (Pressing the button one or more waypoint(s) before the programmed holding point is not possible and gives an extra difficulty to the whole simulation.)

Also when entering a holding via this symbol, the aircraft are not listed in the holding lists and the possibility to train the handling of those lists is not given (I know it is not a big thing, but it is missing and it is a point that could be improved.)

Is there a possibility to programm something so that the tags are linked with the simulator? (e.g. entering DINIG in the Tag will make the aircraft hold at DINIG even if it's not the next waypoint, but the second, third or what ever next waypoint?

It would really help and take this additional unnecessary stress away.

Michael Kühne (1174044)
15.06.2017, 17:35
You should add a TAG-item to get the holdings easily attributed: Simulator holding points (or something like that).
All the holdings defined in the scenario file can be selected, if the next waypoint is a holding it's the top selection, otherwhise you have to select the correct point. Unfortunately the aircraft will also proceed direct to the holding point (which can result in weird routings) and you have to select manually a speed that makes sense.

I don't know if it's possible to link the two commands under the standard holding-item, maybe Mike can help with this question.
But at least there is a way to make the aircraft hold without too much effort.

Jonas Kuster (1158939)
15.06.2017, 18:24
When I tried to assigns holding via tag, the holding was correctly entered to the list, but the aircraft continued straight on their route without any holding.The functionality we use to assign holdings is provided by a separate plugin. It is kind of a display-only option which is only available to controllers using the same plugin (or which decode the holding information added to the flight plan remarks).
As already explained, assigning a holding in the simulator causes the aircraft the fly direct to this waypoint and start the holding. This is normally not the action you are looking for and would make the scenario more difficult than it really is. A connection between the plugin and the simulator command is therefore not a good idea in my opinion.
What could probably be implemented is that aircraft join the standard holdings by default, so that the scenario file contains already the necessary commands that aircraft are following the STAR and entering a specified holding. The relevant display via the holding plugin can be solved by entering the coded holding information in the flight plan remarks. But I'm not sure if the scenario files can be changed that way. Probably Michael can give us an answer here as he is very familiar with scenario files.

Michael Kühne (1174044)
15.06.2017, 18:53
But I'm not sure if the scenario files can be changed that way.
No idea, never tried it. Maybe it works with a waypoint like H: DINIG (without the space, but if i write it that way it reads H:DINIG), as I seem to remember that this is what is showed in ES if an aircraft is holding.
To program it in the scenario file might work for Zurich, where after the holding vectors are used. In Geneva you would always have to make sure the aircraft is following its route and not holding if not intended. Therefore I think that to add a separate TAG-item for the holding command would be the easiest way. That the aircraft is flying directly to the holding point is, at least in Geneva, not a big issue in my eyes.